Long and controversial post about Sunday School yesterday

I haven't been to Sunday School for a looong time, mostly because our church does not have a nursery or classes for children under the age of three.

Well yesterday I finally made an appearance, and went to a parenting class, taught by a woman in my church who has five children and the oldest is in high school. She is using materials called "Effective Parenting in a Defective World."

Yesterday's session was "Punishment versus Discipline."

First an overview of the lesson and video, from the notes:

Punishment is about inflicting penalty for an offense; it's focus is past misdeeds; the attitude of the parent is hostility and frustration; and it results in fear and guilt

Discipline is about training for correction and maturity; the focus is future correct acts; the attitude of the parent is love and concern; and it results and security

He said there is no reason to ever punish because Jesus already past for all our offenses. No punishment is needed.

He who spares his rod hates his son, but he who loves him disciplines him diligently - Proverbs 13:24

Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him - Proverbs 22:15

He said that spanking is "so strongly taught in scripture" and is "God's answer to eliminate a lot of your stress and frustration." The problem is not spanking itself, but the way it's implemented. It should be done with a wooden spoon, so they don't associate pain with your hand. You should "flick your wrist" when you do it, and it should "sting and hurt a lot, but produce absolutely no damage." Then you should pray together and prompt your child to ask God for forgiveness, where he is restored to God, and then you can have a loving time together, child and parent.

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Now, here are some of my thoughts. Keep in mind they are just thoughts, I'm not an authority, and my kids are still young. I understand that I may be off-base, and I also may change my mind in a few years. But this is what went through my mind during the class.

Please feel free to add your thoughts to the mix:

- Isn't it a rather large leap to say that "the rod of discpline" means spanking? Are we to believe that God thinks spanking is a requirement for discipline? How can spanking (or any single act) be the only way to teach or disciple someone?

- I have never understood the idea about using a tool to whack your kid, as opposed to your hand, because the hand should always be loving. What kid is so dumb to not realize that it's the parent's hand who is making the paddle/spoon/whatever whack them?

- It felt really really weird to be sitting in church among people I know and be given instructions for exactly how to go about whacking our kids.

- The point was made that discipline was about teaching and training. How does someone learn by being hit? The example made in his talk was about a child going to a neighbor's house when you told him never to go in that particular person's house. It seems like there would be a whole host of things you could instruct your child about -- ways to decline an invitation, how some people or situations are not safe, what to do if you sense a threat, etc etc. Yet his idea of "training" in this situation is to take the child into the bedroom and hit him.

- Similarly, he used the phrase of "being restored to God." I don't understand this theology at all; how is a person "restored to God" by being hit by another person? If he is talking about the prayer afterwards, okay, but how does the spanking fit in with that? The implication seems to be that you can't talk to God, or won't be forgiven, unless a third party has deliberately inflicted pain on you first. How is that Biblical? And how is that not a punishment?

- The point was also made that punishment is about anger and vengeance, and discipline is about love. I would agree that spanking when you're angry should not be recommended ... but does anyone else think it seems totally creepy to smack your own child when you're perfectly calm and happy? Hitting them when you're mad at least makes sense.

Anyone care to jump in?